Placed under the cut because of Twitter loading.
In IVF you choose which of say 12 embryos in a dish to implant. If genetics let you choose for intellect among your own embryos, would you?
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) April 17, 2013
As a woman who has gone through IVF, I really wish you would stop linking IVF to eugenics. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
There's already a false cultural narrative which says that most IVF children are "designer babies" and this doesn't help. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
@anamardoll You'd rather choose your embryos at random? What if you or your partner was known to have a haemophilia gene? Or Huntington's?
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) April 17, 2013
There is a vast amount of difference between selecting the embryo most likely to survive and the one most "intelligent". @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
Esp since you must already realize that complex traits don't tie simply into one gene in the way that genetic defects do. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
Genetic testing is already under legal attack. Pretending that IVF parents are engineering for intelligence is harmful. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
@anamardoll It suggests nothing of the kind. I am speculating about the future. At present most IVF embryos are chosen at random wrt genes.
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) April 17, 2013
No, they are not chosen "randomly". You're displaying appalling unfamiliarity with IVF genetic testing. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
@anamardoll Do you really not understand the difference between a hypothetical speculation and a factual statement?
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) April 17, 2013
Do you really not understand the social context in which you are making your remarks? @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
When I underwent IVF, they had to do the genetic testing secretly because of rhetoric that falsely ties it to eugenics. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
@anamardoll How are they chosen, then? If not randomly, how? Are you seriously claiming that nowadays most IVF embryos are gene-tested?
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) April 17, 2013
Mine were. But I had to fight for the right to do so because of thisnarrative that it's not for health but for eugenics. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
You are adding to that narrative with your repeated choice to link modern testing with futuristic eugenics. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
@anamardoll Let me get this straight. You are telling me they withdrew cells from your embryos in the petri dish and tested their genes?
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) April 17, 2013
Yes. And all my embryos died because of genetic defects that we would not otherwise have known about but for the testing. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
If I hadn't insisted on the genetic testing over my doctor's wishes, we wouldn't have found out about the defect we carry. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
So we are talking about my lived experience. And I am telling you that your talking points cause real, actual harm. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
I can believe you didn't realize it. But now that you know, I hope you will stop linking modern testing with eugenics, pls. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
@anamardoll Well, good for you. And my commiserations. But such testing is rare, though I expect it to become commoner in the future.
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) April 17, 2013
It will not become commoner when people keep misunderstanding that it's done for health purposes and not designer babies. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
Because there is a difference between selecting based on survival chance versus selecting because parent wants a Mozart. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
And I thank you, genuinely, for your commiserations. It was a painful time, made more so by having to fight my doctor. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
That's why I care about this issue -- I want to make things easier for the next woman who wants genetic testing. :) @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
And it's why I hope you will reconsider making this eugenics link in the future. Thank you. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
@anamardoll So you're saying there's a common misperception, among ignorant people, that +ve ("designer baby") selection is already going on
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) April 17, 2013
Yes. And that if it's legal to test/identify an embryo's genes, the parents will use that knowledge to clobber free will. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
i.e., "Make a Mozart". When in reality gene testing is all about selecting for health and survival. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
IVF is a very grueling process. The goal is to minimize attempts. Selecting healthy embryos furthers that goal. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
Which is another reason why selecting for "intelligence" is unlikely. Health is paramount to IVF being successful. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
So between a strong/healthy embryo and an "intelligent" one, the healthy one is the one that will be selected. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
So the whole eugenics-link contributes to harmful narratives while being a non-starter given the constraints of IVF. @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
So the main point of PGD will almost always be to avoid pregnancy termination (even in the future). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preimplan… @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
@anamardoll Of course I sympathise. We went through IVF too, and very sadly failed. But no genetic testing.
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) April 17, 2013
I'm very sorry to hear that. You know how heart-breaking it can be. My deepest sympathies. :( @richarddawkins
— Ana Mardoll (@anamardoll) April 17, 2013
And here what I'm sure is a totally coincidental update:
English is my native language. My words mean what I intend. If you read them differently because of "social context" that's your problem.
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) April 18, 2013
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